Comments on: Seperating head from soul: The Greg leaves Chicago http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/ Wed, 09 Jul 2008 01:19:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: GK http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-987 GK Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:47:50 +0000 http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-987 So I don't really have much to offer as far as witty comments concerning Maddux, Hendry, or baseball in general. I just wanted to say to PostmanE, for the second time, the first time being the Michael Jordan getting old post, you hit the nail on the head for me. Maddux is a guy that could have pitched for any team and I still would have liked him. There is something intoxicating for me about a guy who was one of the best pitchers of his era and looks like he should be lucky to have a job period let alone be a professional athlete. I also have always loved the way he won, because no one else really does it like him anymore. He had no physical advantages of any kind, if anything he was severely disadvantaged by comparison, and he could barely hurl it over 90 mph in his prime. I guess I always felt like Greg Maddux won because he beat you, not because he could do things you couldn't, or even better than you could. He did the same stuff every other pitcher in the league could do but he could make it work. Finally I've really come to respect the way the man conducts himself. For a guy who was possibly the best pitcher in the game 10 years ago and is now a fourth starter at best I have never once heard him make an excuse, in fact the thing I heard from him most often in his second stint as a Cub was he needed to pitch better. That to me is so refreshing and honorable to be able to take no excuses when so many are offered and to never put together a front for the fans and the media, to just be honest and take responsibility for himself and his team. Maddux is one of those classy guys I not only enjoy but also respect and I am personally sad to see him go. I am apparently incappable of leaving a short comment, sorry. So I don’t really have much to offer as far as witty comments concerning Maddux, Hendry, or baseball in general. I just wanted to say to PostmanE, for the second time, the first time being the Michael Jordan getting old post, you hit the nail on the head for me. Maddux is a guy that could have pitched for any team and I still would have liked him. There is something intoxicating for me about a guy who was one of the best pitchers of his era and looks like he should be lucky to have a job period let alone be a professional athlete. I also have always loved the way he won, because no one else really does it like him anymore. He had no physical advantages of any kind, if anything he was severely disadvantaged by comparison, and he could barely hurl it over 90 mph in his prime. I guess I always felt like Greg Maddux won because he beat you, not because he could do things you couldn’t, or even better than you could. He did the same stuff every other pitcher in the league could do but he could make it work. Finally I’ve really come to respect the way the man conducts himself. For a guy who was possibly the best pitcher in the game 10 years ago and is now a fourth starter at best I have never once heard him make an excuse, in fact the thing I heard from him most often in his second stint as a Cub was he needed to pitch better. That to me is so refreshing and honorable to be able to take no excuses when so many are offered and to never put together a front for the fans and the media, to just be honest and take responsibility for himself and his team. Maddux is one of those classy guys I not only enjoy but also respect and I am personally sad to see him go.

I am apparently incappable of leaving a short comment, sorry.

]]> By: Phillips http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-984 Phillips Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:29:45 +0000 http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-984 What gives? Is your mom over 40 (and i'm gonna assume thats a safe bet eventhough this is the midwest) and pitching for the Yankees? Cause that would explain it. What gives? Is your mom over 40 (and i’m gonna assume thats a safe bet eventhough this is the midwest) and pitching for the Yankees? Cause that would explain it.

]]> By: PostmanE http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-979 PostmanE Wed, 02 Aug 2006 18:09:52 +0000 http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-979 By the way, since we're doing a good bit of baseball talk, let me announce this here. My Mom has an injured rotator cuff. Seriously. No word on her recovery yet, but fans are pointing at Dusty Baker for mismanaging her innings and failing to correct her mechanics. By the way, since we’re doing a good bit of baseball talk, let me announce this here. My Mom has an injured rotator cuff. Seriously.

No word on her recovery yet, but fans are pointing at Dusty Baker for mismanaging her innings and failing to correct her mechanics.

]]> By: PostmanE http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-975 PostmanE Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:35:29 +0000 http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-975 This one, I mean: "Maybe I skipped the chapter in Moneyball that talks about winning titles by stockpiling defensive middle infielders who can’t get on base." Genius. This one, I mean:

“Maybe I skipped the chapter in Moneyball that talks about winning titles by stockpiling defensive middle infielders who can’t get on base.”

Genius.

]]> By: PostmanE http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-974 PostmanE Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:35:01 +0000 http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-974 BTW, that might be the greatest sentence ever written on this site. BTW, that might be the greatest sentence ever written on this site.

]]> By: PostmanE http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-973 PostmanE Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:31:18 +0000 http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-973 Who needs God when you have Water on your side? Who needs God when you have Water on your side?

]]> By: TJWater http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-972 TJWater Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:21:18 +0000 http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-972 Joining the party late... I agree with E about not needing to make this move (espcially for who they got in return). They made this move as a part of the "rebuilding" and to cater to the cub fan/huge moron who says "we owe it to maddux to send him to a playoff team" (Maddux makes 9 million dollars a season. The cubs owe him nothing). The cubs were also presumably not picking up the option on Maddux after this season. Here's a thought, they should have picked it up. Consider this; In order for the Cubs to be legit contenders in the NL in 2007, they will now need to sign AT MINIMUM 2, possibly 3 legit starting pitchers. (My reasoning: Zambrano, Prior, and Marshall are locked in to the rotation, and rightfully so. However, if someone came up to you and said they can look into the future and they told you that either A) Mark Prior will miss 4 months with injury next season or B) Marshall hits a soph. slump and has 10 losses at the All-Star break, would you even think about telling him he's full of shit?) So what Hendry is basically telling us is that he can sign not 1, not 2, but 3 guys who are better than maddux next year. 3 guys who are a lock to win 10-12 games. Here are the 2007 free agents who meet this criteria: Mark Mulder, Brad Radke (who btw has a club option that will most likely get picked up), Mike Mussina, and Jason Schmidt. Does any trust the cubs to sign three of these 4 guys? Anyone? This is the same GM who two years ago had an outfield that hit 110 homeruns, in that short time has managed to get rid of them and roll out the murderers row of Pagan, Pierre, and Jones. If the cubs don't make this trade to cater to the idiots, they could have been setup extremely well for next season. Here's what could have been a very probably 2007 starting cub rotation: Zambrano Mulder (he'll be the cheapest because of this sub-par year) Prior Maddux Marshall That's easily the best in the NL Central, and maybe one of the best in the entire NL. Instead, you make a stupid trade for Mini-Neifi..... Izturis is a career .260 hitter with a career .290 OBP. What the hell are the cubs thinking? Maybe I skipped the chapter in Moneyball that talks about winning titles by stockpiling defensive middle infielders who can't get on base. Dont they already have two of them in Neifi and Cedeno? Good God. And at least Izturis didnt get an entirely new tendon in his throwing arm a few months ago, because if it weren't for his defense, he'd be a banana farmer right now.... And I know Neifi and Cedeno isnt exactly a great combo, but if the cubs could have waited two more months they could have had a far greater improvement up the middle without giving up Maddux. Soriano, Mark Loretta, Luis Castillo, Mark Grudzielanek, and Julio Lugo are all free agents in the off season. All of them are better options than Izturis. They could have waited for any of these guys. It's not like they made this move for a stretch run. And they could have afforded to pay Soriano since they are about 20mil below their historical payroll. I hate the Cubs. I'm glad to see they not only just wasted a chance to be a decent contender next year, but also locked up about 3 more years of 90+ losses. All in one move that didn't need to be made. All I'm waitng for is the Dusty contract extension and my life will be pretty much complete. Joining the party late…

I agree with E about not needing to make this move (espcially for who they got in return). They made this move as a part of the “rebuilding” and to cater to the cub fan/huge moron who says “we owe it to maddux to send him to a playoff team” (Maddux makes 9 million dollars a season. The cubs owe him nothing). The cubs were also presumably not picking up the option on Maddux after this season. Here’s a thought, they should have picked it up.

Consider this; In order for the Cubs to be legit contenders in the NL in 2007, they will now need to sign AT MINIMUM 2, possibly 3 legit starting pitchers. (My reasoning: Zambrano, Prior, and Marshall are locked in to the rotation, and rightfully so. However, if someone came up to you and said they can look into the future and they told you that either A) Mark Prior will miss 4 months with injury next season or B) Marshall hits a soph. slump and has 10 losses at the All-Star break, would you even think about telling him he’s full of shit?)

So what Hendry is basically telling us is that he can sign not 1, not 2, but 3 guys who are better than maddux next year. 3 guys who are a lock to win 10-12 games. Here are the 2007 free agents who meet this criteria: Mark Mulder, Brad Radke (who btw has a club option that will most likely get picked up), Mike Mussina, and Jason Schmidt.

Does any trust the cubs to sign three of these 4 guys? Anyone? This is the same GM who two years ago had an outfield that hit 110 homeruns, in that short time has managed to get rid of them and roll out the murderers row of Pagan, Pierre, and Jones.

If the cubs don’t make this trade to cater to the idiots, they could have been setup extremely well for next season. Here’s what could have been a very probably 2007 starting cub rotation:

Zambrano
Mulder (he’ll be the cheapest because of this sub-par year)
Prior
Maddux
Marshall

That’s easily the best in the NL Central, and maybe one of the best in the entire NL. Instead, you make a stupid trade for Mini-Neifi…..

Izturis is a career .260 hitter with a career .290 OBP. What the hell are the cubs thinking? Maybe I skipped the chapter in Moneyball that talks about winning titles by stockpiling defensive middle infielders who can’t get on base. Dont they already have two of them in Neifi and Cedeno? Good God. And at least Izturis didnt get an entirely new tendon in his throwing arm a few months ago, because if it weren’t for his defense, he’d be a banana farmer right now….

And I know Neifi and Cedeno isnt exactly a great combo, but if the cubs could have waited two more months they could have had a far greater improvement up the middle without giving up Maddux.

Soriano, Mark Loretta, Luis Castillo, Mark Grudzielanek, and Julio Lugo are all free agents in the off season. All of them are better options than Izturis. They could have waited for any of these guys. It’s not like they made this move for a stretch run. And they could have afforded to pay Soriano since they are about 20mil below their historical payroll.

I hate the Cubs. I’m glad to see they not only just wasted a chance to be a decent contender next year, but also locked up about 3 more years of 90+ losses. All in one move that didn’t need to be made. All I’m waitng for is the Dusty contract extension and my life will be pretty much complete.

]]> By: Jake http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-968 Jake Wed, 02 Aug 2006 03:39:18 +0000 http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-968 Oh yeah Phillips, I totally agree with you. It's time to let the young guys play, especially the pitchers. Rich Hill looked good for the first time ever tonight. If they can sign Pierre to an extension this winter, which I still think is a good idea, the middle of the diamond is really solid and young with Barrett, Izturis, Cedeno and Pierre. The corner infield spots are pretty good as well. Murton leaves something to be desired in left field - Felix Pie anyone? All in all I think the position players have just underachieved or been hurt for most of the year. Dusty might not be the right guy to give the North Side a winning mentality. Oh, to have Jim Leyland. It's all about the pitching. I think Kerry Wood restructures his contract and comes back for an inexpensive/incentive-laden contract. In the mean time they just have to hope that the rookies keep getting better. They can't continue to count on Prior. But you're right, they went from five outs away from the World Series to a franchise in real rough shape. It's probably time for leadership to change, or at least get a new philosophy. I think Izturis might be the start of that. Oh and E, if only Maddux had had surgery and could've bled from part of his body while pitching, I think we would've won it all by now. Oh yeah Phillips, I totally agree with you. It’s time to let the young guys play, especially the pitchers. Rich Hill looked good for the first time ever tonight. If they can sign Pierre to an extension this winter, which I still think is a good idea, the middle of the diamond is really solid and young with Barrett, Izturis, Cedeno and Pierre. The corner infield spots are pretty good as well. Murton leaves something to be desired in left field - Felix Pie anyone? All in all I think the position players have just underachieved or been hurt for most of the year. Dusty might not be the right guy to give the North Side a winning mentality. Oh, to have Jim Leyland. It’s all about the pitching. I think Kerry Wood restructures his contract and comes back for an inexpensive/incentive-laden contract. In the mean time they just have to hope that the rookies keep getting better. They can’t continue to count on Prior. But you’re right, they went from five outs away from the World Series to a franchise in real rough shape. It’s probably time for leadership to change, or at least get a new philosophy. I think Izturis might be the start of that.

Oh and E, if only Maddux had had surgery and could’ve bled from part of his body while pitching, I think we would’ve won it all by now.

]]> By: Phillips http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-967 Phillips Wed, 02 Aug 2006 03:24:18 +0000 http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-967 well played E, well played well played E, well played

]]> By: PostmanE http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-966 PostmanE Wed, 02 Aug 2006 03:17:06 +0000 http://www.wearethepostmen.com/2006/08/01/seperating-head-from-soul-the-greg-leaves-chicago/#comment-966 Jason and Jake: Good stuff. My point wasn't so much that Hendry could have gotten more, or that he shouldn't have traded Maddux at all. I was just saying I had a bit of a romantic notion of him - the guy that left to Chicago to go do Hall of Fame stuff - would come back and lead his former team to a World Series. A bit like Curt Schilling, without so much Jesus talk. (And no, Schilling wasn't on the Red Sox early in his career, but you get the point.) My point was basically that the emotional attachment formed to some guys lasts and hurts, especially when you have to watch those players worsen over time, and in Maddux's case, get traded in a nondescript fashion to a team I really couldn't care about. Emotion aside, it's actually a pretty good trade. And yes, Phillips, that's pretty much exactly how it happened. "Greg...I can't even WIN wich you...your ARM...is so POLLUTED!" Jason and Jake:

Good stuff. My point wasn’t so much that Hendry could have gotten more, or that he shouldn’t have traded Maddux at all. I was just saying I had a bit of a romantic notion of him - the guy that left to Chicago to go do Hall of Fame stuff - would come back and lead his former team to a World Series. A bit like Curt Schilling, without so much Jesus talk. (And no, Schilling wasn’t on the Red Sox early in his career, but you get the point.)

My point was basically that the emotional attachment formed to some guys lasts and hurts, especially when you have to watch those players worsen over time, and in Maddux’s case, get traded in a nondescript fashion to a team I really couldn’t care about. Emotion aside, it’s actually a pretty good trade.

And yes, Phillips, that’s pretty much exactly how it happened.

“Greg…I can’t even WIN wich you…your ARM…is so POLLUTED!”

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